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May 28, 2009
City of Georgetown, Texas
Historic and Architectural Review Commission Meeting
Minutes
Thursday, May 28, 2009, at 6:00 p.m.
City Council and Courts Building 101 E. 7th Street, Georgetown, Texas 78626
Members Present: Susan Firth; J.C. Johnson; Larry Moseley; Ron Pergl; Dee Rapp
Members Absent: West Short, Chair; and Will Moore
Staff Present: Robbie Wyler, Historic District Planner; Valerie Kreger, Principal Planner and
Karen Frost, Recording Secretary
Acting Chair Johnson called the meeting to order at 6:00 p.m.
Regular Session: To begin no earlier than 6:00 p.m.
Consent Agenda:
The Consent Agenda includes non-controversial and routine items that the Commission may act
on with one single vote. A Commissioner or any member of the public may request that any
item from the Consent Agenda be pulled in order that the Commission discuss and act upon it
individually as part of the Regular Agenda. The Historic and Architectural Review
Commission's approval of an item on the Consent Agenda will be consistent with the staff
recommendation described in the report, unless otherwise noted.
1. Review and possible approval of the minutes from the April 23, 2009 regular meeting.
2. Consideration and possible action on a request for a Certificate of Design Compliance for
signage at City of Georgetown, Block 38, Lots 2 & 3, located at 109 W. 7th Street. (CDC-2009-
013)
This item was approved at the Sign Subcommittee.
3. Consideration and possible action on a request for a Certificate of Design Compliance for
signage at City of Georgetown, Block 27, Lots 1 – 8, located at 501 S. Austin Avenue, Suite #
1410. (CDC-2009-014)
Motion by Firth to approve the minutes as written. Second by Rapp. Approved 5 -0.
Item number 3 was brought forth from the Subcommittee and discussed as a regular agenda
item. Wyler presented the staff report. The applicant is seeking approval for a new
projecting sign on the 3rd story facade of Tamiro Plaza facing Austin Avenue. The applicant
has an existing approved A-frame sign and a portion of the existing monument sign. For
marketing reasons, the applicant feels a more prominent and permanent sign on the side of
the building is appropriate and will add an interesting feature to the building. The signs is
to be eight feet high by two feet wide by one foot thick. Staff cited recommending approval
based on compliance with guidelines 9.2, 9.8, 9.15, 9.17, 9.18 and 9.20.
Acting Chair Johnson opened the floor to the applicant for additional comment. The owner
and operator of the Silver and Stone Restaurant, James Ramsey stated he feels he needs the
sign to have enough business to stay open. He cited McDonalds and the Monument
Restaurant as local examples of signage that works.
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May 28, 2009
Commissioners began asking questions. What is the proposed angle of the sign from the
building? Wyler responded that it is proposed to be a 90 degree angle. How far will the sign
be offset from the building? Ramsey responded that he is trying to make the sign as close to
the building as possible and it should be about four in ches within line of the existing turret.
Rapp questioned the ability of other tenants in the building requesting similar signage.
Wyler responded that the other tenants were on the lower floors and that they other street
level signs so this should not affect them.
Firth questioned why this was not applied for with the original sign plan. Ramsey
responded that he had to raise the capital before getting the sign designed and then made,
therefore the delay. Firth explained she was still concerned about the placement of the sign
and cited Guideline 9.13 that states a sign shouldn’t detract from a building and that this
sign throws an asymmetrical element onto a symmetrical building. She suggested perhaps
placing the sign below the turret which would still be in line with an existing projection
from the building. She also suggested putting the sign horizontally below the third floor
balcony.
Ramsey stated he had considered a lot of different options and that he would be open to the
idea of placing the sign under the turret, but did not think the sign under the balcony would
be effective. Firth also suggested better lobby signage if people were having a hard time
finding his restaurant as he suggested earlier. There was further debate between having a
horizontal sign versus a vertical sign.
Motion by Firth to approve a CDC for the same sign as proposed but hung at a 45 degree
angle under the turret on the southwest corner of the building. Motion died for lack of
second.
Motion by Moseley to approve the sign as proposed but to locate it under the turret at the
southwest corner of the building and located perpendicular to Austin Avenue, at a 90
degree angle to the building. Second by Pergl. Approved 5 – 0.
Regular Agenda:
4. Consideration and possible action on a request for a Certificate of Design Compliance for the
demolition of an accessory structure at Morrow Addition, Block E (NW/PT), located at 1237
S. Main Street. (CDC-2009-012)
Wyler presented the staff report. The applicant seeks approval to demolish an accessory
structure to allow for an addition to the main house. Guidelines that support staff
recommendation of approval are 7.11 and 7.13. Chair Johnson asked Mrs. Neal if she had
any comments, to which she responded, “I sure would like to tear it down.” There was no
further discussion by the commission.
Motion by Rapp to approve the CDC for demolition of the garage structure. Second by
Moseley. Approved 5 – 0.
5. Conceptual review and discussion with Bryant Boyd on the proposed facade renovation to
the Main Street fire station bays, located at 816 S. Main Street.
Firth recused herself from the dais and the room for conflict of interest reasons. An affidavit
form was placed on file. Wyler introduced Jeff Schross, representing Bryant Boyd Architects,
for the discussion of the renovation of the fire station at 817 West Main Street. Mr. Schross
began by explaining the scope of the project was to convert the fire bays to a wine
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May 28, 2009
production and tasting facility. Their proposal is to remove the existing brick and convert
the exterior to limestone. They would also be replacing the garage doors with wooden
double doors, with one set still being the rolling style for shipping and receiving truck
access. They have discussed extending the sidewalk.
Commissioners made comments. Johnson stated he liked the idea of converting the brick to
limestone, more consistent with the downtown buildings. He questioned the appearance of
the length of the building with the other adjacent buildings and suggested recessed alcove
type doors, as soon on other portions of the square, to provide more articulation along this
block.
Moseley suggested adding a wider stone cap on top of the front rock wall that would also
provide a bigger shade line. Rapp suggested perhaps rooftop patio seating to get people off
the street level. Signage was discussed and it was suggested a perpendicular sign at the
southern edge of the building would work well. Johnson suggested seeking public opinion.
There was no more discussion. Mr. Schross thanked the commission for their time and
comments.
Firth was called back to the dais.
6. Discussion and possible action on the replacement of J.C. Johnson on the Sign Subcommittee.
This item was tabled until the other two regular members could be present for discussion.
Chair Johnson agreed to continue to serve until a replacement was found.
7. Discussion and possible action to establish a time limit on discussions with applicants.
This item was tabled until the next meeting when Chair Short could be present for
discussion.
8. Reminder that the next regular HARC meeting will take place on June 25, 2009.
9. Adjournment
Acting Chair Johnson adjourned the meeting at 7:00 p.m.
__________________________________ _________________________________
Approved, J.C. Johnson, Acting Chair Attest, Susan Firth, Commissioner